steveb
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 23, 2013 18:37:44 GMT
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Post by badger on Mar 26, 2013 9:53:12 GMT
But is it money?
I think I read somewhere that money has to meet 3 criteria (a) universal acceptance (b) I can use it at Tesco's (c) I can pay my taxes with it.
If it doesn't meet (c) then how are we going to pay for public services?
Also, total quantity is mathematically restricted, so if it can't keep up with growth in world GDP, there wouldn't be enough to go round and it would cause extreme recessions. That's why we gave up using gold as a currency.
The fact that the value of one bitcoin has increased exponentially puts it more in the class of an investment asset rather than a money - more like gold, or even dutch tulip bulbs.
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steveb
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 26, 2013 11:05:45 GMT
The points you make are spot on. I recommend the Bitcoin wiki pages for discussion/ reference. My (limitted) understanding is that BTC does fall outside the current definitions of 'money' as you say, but it is quite unique in its design such that some see it as an experiment that might one day partially replace 'money'. For example, unlike gold there is a known rate of bitcoin production and a known final quantity, which it is predicted will bring steady deflation (allegedly unheard of in currencies of the past). en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deflationary_spiralI am interested in the notion of a stateless global currency that is 'open source' and outside state regulation (at present). It seems that we are heading toward greater and greater unification of the world, which could mean a complete extension of US empire run from Wall Street, or new understandings of the concepts of 'state' and 'currency'... Max Kaiser recently callled Bitcoin ,'the currency of the resistance'.
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Post by Badger on Mar 26, 2013 16:54:16 GMT
Thanks for the wiki link, it casts a totally different light on the supposed recessionary tendency of deflation. Excellent article!
I also liked the statement that "the popular money that we trade consists of the principal of the loans of other people. All this money must be someday 'repaid.' When people save (pay back their loans), the total monetary supply contracts. When people spend (take out loans), the total monetary supply is increasing"
Spot on
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peterv
Junior Member
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Post by peterv on Mar 27, 2013 8:55:48 GMT
There was a discussion about Bitcoin on Newsnight on Tuesday March 26th. www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaOsM3RUNG8PS 7/4/13 - this link replaces my original BBC iplayer link which has now expired
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steveb
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Mar 28, 2013 11:16:11 GMT
Interesting....
Again there seems to be a real lack of clear understanding about how money works.
Daniel Knowles starts referring to Bitcoin as being liable to the same problems as gold backed money, but then back tracks as he realises that it is different to gold (by having a known finite quantity). He points out the money laundering issue, but its not in the context of the 18+ (?) trillion dollars that are offshore now. He refers to amazon coins being linked to a 'real' currency (i.e. the US dollar), but what is a 'real' currency? What gives the dollar its reserve status ? Is it not the empire that is maintained by hundreds of military bases around the globe ? Is that 'real' ?
I can see problems with the Bitcoin idea, and it will most likely be superseded as is suggested in the Newsnight piece, however, it does bring up important questions (Paxman's opening , 'What IS money?') which don't seem to have clear or obvious answers.
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peterv
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by peterv on Nov 2, 2013 11:12:52 GMT
In the news Nov 2013 "Bitcoins have soared so much in value that a Norwegian man who bought £15-worth of the online currency on a whim in 2009 - then forgot about them for four years - found that they're now worth £430,000. Having spent a day trying to remember his password, he sold 20% and used the money to buy a flat in Oslo"
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steveb
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by steveb on Nov 2, 2013 20:49:17 GMT
Maybe they should rename it 'BubbleCoin' ?
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